I’ve been meaning to start doing these open discussion threads on my SubStack and now is as good a time as any.
In the future, they’ll be for subscribers only but now they’re open to all.
Here’s where we are…
VP Pence won’t consider the 25th amendment.
Biden, according to CNN, has no interest in impeachment and conviction (doesn’t directly involve him anyway). Not surprising, he wants to move on from the Trump presidency.
Pelosi and Schumer say they’re waiting to hear back from Pence.
Only way forward now seems to be for Pelosi to call back the House to pass articles of impeachment.
What will Mitch McConnell do if/when that lands on his desk?
One way to look at it, if Trump is impeached and convicted, he can’t run for office again if the Senate chooses to bar him from federal office. Will ambitious Republican Senators who want to run in 2024 support conviction and banning him from holding federal office again so that he won’t get in their way in 2024?
What should happen in your mind?
PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL OF EACH OTHER!
They simply can’t do nothing. It blows my mind that yesterday trump forced a full joint session of congress, and held a massive rally ending it with the clear understanding by the crowd to storm the joint session, the members and staff had to flee in a panic, their families terrified, and as they were afraid for their LIVES, trump DENIED them support!?!?
How are we even having this conversation?
What has happened to our nation?
How is there a single member of congress not eagerly voting him out?
the world is watching.
If 45 is impeached (and I believe he should be) he would no longer be entitled to the secret service protection former Presidents receive and prevent him from running again. That’s enough for me. As I see it, he has the goods on a lot of people who enjoyed playing his game. The Epstein Barr connection is strong, possible footage exists... just a guess.
There needs to be accountability. How can our children look back in 10 years and not feel shame and anger if they see that our leaders did nothing meaningful when the biggest attack in a democratic institution happened? Pelosi and Schumer need to step the fuck up and do bring articles of impeachment. Sen cruz and Harley must be censored or expelled. And there needs to be a resolution in the House of Representatives condemn all of the congresspeople that tried to overturn a fully legal election
He should go of course. But no one is going to do anything. They haven’t done it for 4 years, so why would the next 2 weeks be different. We will hear a lot of “we need to move on / turn the page / heal the country / unite”. In the meantime he’ll pardon himself and the rest of the clowns and fly off into the Florida sunset
Reading a comment here that says Trump was responsible for bringing the two events together brought home how dangerous what happened on January 6 really was. He invited the demonstrators to DC, spoke to and encouraged them. He them told them to go where Congress was meeting to disrupt what was going on at the Capitol. After all that we now learn he delayed deployment of the national guard while the lives of congressmen and women were being threatened. There is a suggestion many insurrectionists were there to carry out what people in Michigan were arrested for trying to do to the Michigan governor, i. e. kidnap and kill her. There also is video which hints at a certain degree of coordination between the rioters and the Trump admin!!! In my wildest dreams I hadn't considered this might be an attempt by Trump to kill certain members of Congress until now and there's still time. Parler posts are calling for people to assemble again in DC on January 19 as if to finish what they started. I have no doubt Trump wants to lead a Confederacy for as long as he lives that will remain in direct opposition to any federal govt he cannot control. I don't think impeachment is the answer. I think he should be imprisoned.
"So the vast majority of the insurrectionists just walked away, Congress went home and the only repercussion for Trump so far is temporarily losing his Facebook account? What a country." San Francisco Chronicle columnist Heather Knight. So true.
We need to impeach. Not interested in predictions and politics. I fear for our country.
Some action needs to be taken as soon as possible to strip TMP of pardon power and prohibit him from ever taking office again, or even claiming to be a candidate so he can perpetually defraud people by soliciting campaign donations. Also criminal investigations in New York need to proceed to hold entire Trump Inc. accountable for other crimes and limit the possibility that any of them, such as Jr. or Ivanka, ascend to public office. This has to be a multi-lateral effort, to limit future risk, as well as hold accountable for past actions.
They should impeach and have senators go on the record about conviction. The whole situation is a disgrace that we have to just accept two more weeks of him in office and just *hope* he doesn’t do anything else insane. I keep thinking... imagine if President Obama did 1/10000th of anything he’s done and imagine the Republicans and Hannitys of the world with their outrage.
I do feel that it is of the utmost importance to be sure Donald Trump can never run for federal office again. I do feel that it is of the utmost importance to be sure he does no more damage in these next days. I do not know how those things can be accomplished. But I do know that if we make it safely to January 20, 2021, we need to immediately begin to make whatever changes need to be made to be sure that a future president, be he or she mentally ill or seditious, can be dealt with immediately and effectively.
Clearly there was complicity this past Wednesday on the part of those responsible for security. I do not speak of the brave officers who risked their lives, but of those responsible at top levels. Including President Trump.
I feel that something does have to be done. To simply do nothing acknowledges acceptance of this type of behaviour. Those of us watching from other countries can not give respect to a country that allows these type of actions to go unpunished.
I think they should impeach. Get anyone who supports him on the record for eternity. Let the fact that they were a Trump sycophant follow their children and their children’s children. This was unacceptable and scary. There was a gallows. Think about the awful feelings they have towards AOC, MVP Elect Harris, Speaker Pelosi. There is no doubt in my mind that if they were not secured that they would have been harmed. We have to keep in mind that many of the people there are from the south. The south which not too long ago had lynchings that were public entertainment events. When surrounded by likeminded “friends,” people throw their inhibitions to the wind and engage in primitive behavior they’ve always wanted to.
I fear that someone with better instincts, more competence and who is currently not tied to him, uses his playbook to gain power and does destroy our democracy. Something has to be done to discourage this in the future.
I think impeaching him would be a really great way for Republicans to distance themselves from him but I also don’t think they have the backbone to do it... My biggest concern about yesterday is that it shows our enemies abroad how much of a mess we are and that sometime in the next two weeks is probably a good time to attack if they wanted 🙃
As someone who supported Trump in both '16 & '20 this was absolutely disgusting and he should resign. If he doesn't I think that Pence should consider the 25th amendment. There were reports earlier today that Trump was looking into pardoning himself, which isn't possible, so I think he might make a deal with Pence, that if he resigns Pence will pardon him. I don't know if impeachment + conviction will work given the time constraints but I don't think it should be off the table if only to prevent him from running in '24.
In reality, Trump should have been removed long ago via the 25th Amendment, but everyone involved was afraid of the repercussions. If he is impeached, again, and not convicted, I believe it will do more harm than good. Can we do nothing? That depends on what one considers to be "nothing". In two weeks, the Dems will be doing a lot. In the meantime, we have a raging pandemic, people who cannot afford food or housing, and economy that continues to falter. If there is a chance Trump would be convicted, it makes sense to impeach. If not, why take the focus away from other important things. Impeachment will switch the national focus off every other important issue and, if conviction fails, it will have been for nothing.
They need to act now. Every day that passes he will become more and more dangerous. At this point he’s going to brood and brood, becoming angrier and angrier, until he does something so dangerous that this nation may not be able to recover from.
Ted Lieu and others have Articles of Impeachment ready. I think they should keep it moving even if it doesn't end up going anywhere. It looks like they were at least trying to do something.
If Hawley and Cruz dont resign, can they be stripped of their committees by Schumer?
At the very least need censure of him and every republican who went against the free and fair election
even though it would only be for their self gain and not the actual reasons it should be done, I would hope so badly the republican senators would support this and get him out
I like hearing news & perspectives from outside countries and I have to share the best podcast. The Economist publishes a podcast called Checks And Balance that covers US politics. It comes out on Fridays and never fails to impress - thoroughly researched and thought-provoking.
They covered the Reconstruction period a few weeks ago — the period following the Civil War when federal troops were deployed to the south to enforce compliance. They tied it back to the current day rejection of the electoral votes by so many republicans. It was published in December and it is eerily relevant to this week.
In case links don’t work, the episode on Reconstruction is dated 12-18-2020.
This murderer belongs in prison, for the rest of his life. His political life is over. He should have never been elected. This has nothing to do with political affiliation.
You know, having been born and raised in the Soviet Union, I still cannot understand the feat he instills in elected officials.
In USSR, people were afraid of prison and execution, that's why they never spoke up.
Here, they're afraid of losing their elected office...
I don't know what's next for them and the country, but Trump will have a hold on Republican primaries for a while, so Trumpism is not going anywhere.
2024 is not in the cards for him.
I'm more worried about who Dems will run. It'll probably have to be Senator Harris, so we need to throw everything we have behind her AND behind holding the House in order for this electoral college objection fuckery to never have a chance of success.
I'm saddened that Biden isn't for impeachment. trump and his seditious gang need to be held accountable. trump needs to be impeached, the seditious gang must be ejected from office. Not sure if their removal means they can't run for public office. Mitch will stall until Jan 20 and the Dems will convict. Neal Katyal said he can be impeached after office. if they're not held accountable, then this will happen again and trump will run in 2024.. period. Rep Omar said to Chris Hayes, that she is working on articles of impeachment. fortunately for us, she's proactive. those ambitious senators who didn't support sedition will convict him as well as their competitors. after all, they are self-serving. as we said in Chicago in 68, "the whole world is watching"
We study history in school and in life for one main purpose - to teach us not only what happened in the past, but to learn from those experiences and prevent negative consequences of similar actions in the future. While it may be too late for the current administration, I propose an Amendment to the Constitution that would severely limit the powers of an outgoing President once the results are certified by all of the states, or at least certified by Congress.
We have all been left hanging for over 24 hours. No updates, no press conferences nothing. Congress needs to Impeach Friday. No more waiting.
Pence is not going to do 25th.
Do you think cabinet members are resigning in part because they don’t want to be pulled into any possible 25th amendment action?
Impeach him and leave the trial on Mitch’s desk.
Mitch tells Trump, “don’t make me do it.”
If Trump steps out of line, Mitch is teed up to act quickly.
If Trump can chill for 12 f*n days, Mitch can run out the clock (there’s not a more qualified man in the world to do this).
Ted Lui on Twitter said they are readying Articles of Impeachment for Monday
Trump should be forced to resign.
That concession video came in too late.
He has too much blood on his hands.
Impeachment and Conviction is the only viable option if he doesn’t resign.
Pence has to pay for his own crimes too.
I am glad Biden is staying out of it. Because this is not his call but the Rule of Law’s call. Merrick Garland is the one who will decide how to punish all trump administration criminal members.
I get it.....Biden wants to be the Kumbaya president. However, there must be criminal consequences for insurrectionists. If not, their unlawful behavior will only worsen. Pence is a sycophantic loyalist who will never go against trump nor his disciples.
Therefore, once again it’s up to Nancy Pelosi to do what “the men” are unwilling to do.
He needs to be impeached. America and future Americans need to know that what he did during his term is not acceptable. It’s ridiculous that this all could have been prevented had he been removed the first time.
It'll die. I doubt Trump is going to run in 2024, but he's going to want to and will play king maker. Whoever runs will have to kiss the ring so the senate will never impeach him. Voting for it kills their careers. Last night, they didn't do what he wanted but moving against him is altogether different. Impeaching him is largely useless at this point anyway and will only serve to move the narrative back in his favor. He loves being the victim doesn't he?
The last impeachment drive was divisive enough, I don't the damage (and political capitol) that would be required to try are worth it if he's gone in 13 days anyway.
My fear is he/his minions will pull some again something worse and that he will never pay for his horrible decisions.
What happened yesterday was horrific and awful in every way. The loss of life is tragic.
But there are silver linings. Mostly, it handicaps Trump in many ways. It makes his 2024 hopes virtually disappear.
And it paralyzes the Republican Party. He has a lot of influence still but everything he does politically is about him.
He may endorse someone but he could turn on them in one moment.
And Republicans will live in this grey area of seeking his approval/endorsement and trying to appeal to the suburbanites he lost. It’s an untenable position for them.
I want him impeached for all he’s done but I don’t understand why people seem to be holding back! What he’s done and doing is just beyond belief.
Sadly, his cult of personality is ingrained into the minds of millions, and republican senators surely know this. Hard pressed to see a senate conviction on impeachment. Strategically it makes sense for Dems to impeach so they document votes?
I think impeachment could happen, it would be a squeaker but it could. The main incentive would be barring Trump from office as others have said. Clears the field and the establishment owes him nothing after he contributed to the loss in GA. Those yes votes would be ambitious members such as Rubio. Romney, Collins, Murkowski would be standing up for “their” Republican Party; “their” meaning the traditionally conservative wing. Pat Toomey is done after 2022 as well and just called Trump a demogogue. However, House Rs are too vulnerable to the base though, there won’t be a lot of them.
Is there any truth to the rumors that there was a "soft 25th" with Pence effectively taking control and cabinet/military sidelining TMP by not answering to any of his directives?
Impeach. Pence still plans on running in 2024 and will not invoke the 25th amendment. Impeach is the only way to hold trump accountable at this point. Force McConnell and every Senator to go on record with a yea or nay. It's a matter of principle regardless of outcome.
I don't see it happening before the 20th. Things don't move very fast in Congress. I am just hoping that people can keep a lid on his behaviour behind the scenes. Perhaps wishful thinking!
I don’t think the senate will impeach him . Even after this . And would give the excuse that there’s only 14 days left. And I have a question . If he is impeached , Can he run again in 2024 ?
Something needs to happen. If not the 25th, then impeachment. Didn't think about the ambitious R senator prospect, but there's hope I guess if McConnell doesn't just run out the clock.
Democratic leadership should say the cabinet and Mike a pence have 24 hours to use the 25th amendment. If they don’t by the end of the 24 hours impeachment should begin. Trump is to dangerous!
He's got to go. Tomorrow. Great work yashar
If Democrats don’t prosecute every Congressman & insider involved, i’m done w them. How deep is this?! Partially funded & supported by the wife of a supreme court justice!! I know it’s a lifetime appointment, but can he be questioned or impeached?!!
I think this will be their new shtik (republicans, trumpers and the like) “They are silencing you” etc... pushing the surveillance and communism conspiracies. which will Incite them to do more...funny enough werent they just crying about Section 230?
I can’t stop thinking about how complicit Ivanka Trump is. When they assumed office, I wanted to believe that she was a better thinker than her dad. She seems to have zero sense of consequence.
If my dad were separating families or staging a coup, I would intervene. I would blow a whistle and get him professional help. I would save my dad from himself. She is complicit in everything.
And Jared should have a sense of consequence from his dad’s prison time but he doesn’t! It’s fascinating.