I did my first open discussion thread on my SubStack last night and now I’m doing another one re Trump and social media.
In the future, they’ll be for subscribers only but now they’re open to all.
Here’s where we are…
President Trump’s beloved Twitter account has been permanently suspended. His official campaign account has been suspended. His digital director’s Twitter account has been suspended.
Google has suspended the Parler App, which is popular with conservatives and Trump fans, from its app store. Apple has threatened a similar ban.
A lot of this comes from the violent insurrection at the US Capitol earlier this week.
The key here is not the impact it has on Trump right now…he’s the president, he has the world’s most powerful bully pulpit, it’s how it impacts his life/political career after he ‘s no longer president.
What do you think about these suspensions and other enforcement actions social media companies are taking?
I’m looking at it the same way Simon & Schuster cancelled Hawley’s book contract. It’s their prerogative. He can get his book published somewhere else. Trump enjoyed Twitter bcuz it gave him access to millions of people who otherwise would want nothing to do with him. Now he has to figure another way to do it - the old fashioned way. It’s a free platform - they own the rules and now they have to enforce them which is probably a harder job than Trump has finding a new platform.
He also loved Twitter as a platform because he could just spout and RT garbage with little pushback or anyone in person holding him accountable for what he says. It's why he hates journalists even though he has absolute access to every news organization out there.
It's a necessity as a matter of national security not just here domestically, but internationally as well. Yes, we want freedom of speech, and do not want the manifestation of 1984, or scenes from V for Vendetta. But there are already reports that his supporters were being emboldened, and galvanized to plan a secondary DOMESTIC TERRORIST attack on January 17th, and other days subsequently. Therefore, it is a necessity to shut him down, on every single form of media, and it's sweet that it is "Big Tech" that is doing it. If he wants to speak, he can bust out a typewriter and put out a "Presidential Statement", the traditional way. His conduct was given the longest leash in the world, and unfortunately, NOW he has been perceived to have gone too far. There's a trove of opportunities in which action could have been taken. And now there is a trove of those complicit, such as Ted Cruz and the Josh Hawley's of the world. They should be subjected to prosecution by the full extent of the law, as well. In the words of Simon & Schuster, "This BOOK has been CANCELLED!"
Good one. His freedom of speech has not been touched only a mechanism like a broken pen. It is his favorite mechanism to reach out but it doesn't curtail his 1stA rights. No where in the Constitution is Twitter or Facebook mentioned, no where.
From the statements released by the socials, this is being done because the coup is still ongoing and not simply something that started and ended Wednesday. We're not in the clean up phase and the worry in particular is the inauguration.
Its not a speech issue, its counterterrorism according to them.
I'd be surprised if they weren't following protocols established for a foreign terrorist attack now applied to continuing domestic terrorism.
Agreed...many, including the media, are missing the forest for the trees. There is an ongoing violent threat from Trump's radicalized base. The only hope is that federal agencies will act with far more urgency to the imminent new threats than they did to the clearly broadcast January 6th open insurrection literally broadcast on Twitter by the CIC.
Counterterrorism that we can see. What about the other rightwing platforms. I saw a video recently of Graham Allen on FaceBook live inviting all of Trump followers to leave FaceBook and join him on Parler. How do we know that he hasn't been suspended from that platform and isn't still stirring up his followers to continue the attacks in different states? That is what I'm terrified about. I know he's dangerous, but at least we could all see his dangerous rhetoric. I'm more worried about what we CAN'T see or hear.
Too much to block quote, but the two posts they site from Jan 8, which aren't his worst which is being pointed out fairly, they talk about how now they see it as possible signal that his lack of POTUS presence would make it an ideal attack.
The socials work with federal agencies monitoring and logging accounts and decoding messages related to terrorism and nation security.
Its difficult, but these days not impossible, that the socials would even obliquely state that it might be "chatter" for a further attack by the President of the United States against Americans while this is ongoing if this wasn't a concerted effort among all of them. Also if it wasn't based at least in part on work with federal agencies that agree.
Looking for old reports about how social media handles foreign terrorists to see if it matches the current actions specifically.
From their recent moves, its the Four Collaborative Actions...in action.
(I don't follow this stuff enough to know why this statement was initially given on its policies, new and old, but its relevant at the very least for context and judgement of how they are acting)
On a completely separate topic: I am *really* opposed to the self-appointed internet sleuths who are trying to ID the capitol rioters themselves. We should *not* be encouraging that behavior. Remember what happened with Reddit and the Boston Marathon bombers? Just let the FBI do their jobs, they're really good at it.
Sorry Yashar, I know it's off-subject, but I had to write that somewhere.
I agree with you on that. If you have tips, give them to reporters and law enforcement who can vett things. No one should have their life ruined after being misidentified.
The thing is with other media—there has always been some sort of guiding mediator—running for office is essentially selling your brand. A brand is not allowed to repeatedly advertise that their product without does something that it has been proven it does not. Suggest, sure—promise? No. People believe him, as a brand—and people follow him—we are entitled to opinions and to thoughts, not to create new truths. He has created an entire world full of bogus claims and lies. It’s worse than Hitler, honestly.
Also I resent that no one ever mentions the fact that all of our freedoms in the constitution—freedom as it is defined—is only guaranteed as freedom—in so much as it doesn’t prevent, or or infringe upon any other citizens right to freedom. Thus—not wearing a mask is not your freedom—as it impress my freedom to live...etc etc. Seeing as Trumps rhetoric repeatedly calls for his freedom at the expense of others freedom of well being—he deserves none of it.
It’s fascinating that trumpers are more angry about trump’s social media bans than they are why he was banned. Additionally, someone needs to explain to them “free speech” does not mean free from consequences. The 1st amendment guarantees you won’t suffer governmental repercussions, but social media platforms are private companies.
Well said, not only that, but they REFUSE to acknowledge what truly occurred, lives lost, and it's a bit ironic that they stand for "Blue Lives Matter" given the events that have just transpired.
I’m genuinely scared for the next few days/weeks. I just don’t see how this ends well. No matter what scenario plays out, I’m more scared for the safety and future of our country than I’ve ever been. :(
I agree, Colleen. The reality is that this needed to happen years ago, when tempers weren't so high. It's not bad that it happened, but that it happened at THIS moment will further radicalize the most dangerous among us.
This should have happened a long time ago, when it was possible to take a firm stance against violent hate speech and it hadn't radicalized so many people. Now, he's already had so long to brainwash his rabid, militant followers who will follow him anywhere & believe that all reliable media organizations are against them. The filth he's been allowed to spread isn't going away.
He set the precedent himself by going after TikTok as a political stunt. He should have been banned for attacking these platforms from the Office of the President.
After watching the 40 min video of what unfolded at the Capitol, taking a tour through Maga-land social media and digesting Twitter's statement which lays out very clearly why they took this step, my only regret is they didn't act sooner.
I would have preferred his removal from office than the Twitter ban. I understand why Twitter did what they did but I feel like this move would be, for both Trump and his followers, like a wild animal being cornered. They will lash out with out a care. And with out the platform for release, you never know what he and his followers are going to do or how much worse it could be.
Isn’t it beyond ridiculous to have this concern about the leader of our government? SMDH! There should be a psychiatric evaluation for candidates re government leaders. So many thoughts about situations that shouldn’t happen.
Yes, but the sad thing is these are not kids throwing tantrum. These are adults capable of adult size atrocities. We would be naive of us to think that this would teach them a lesson and they’ll just go away.
I’m honestly torn. I understand Twitters perspective and imagine they feel risk of being accused of facilitating another attack if coordination happens on Twitter. I also worry that this confirms what many Trump supporters think; that the left wing wants to censor everything so we can install a communist government. (Sidenote: the fact that Joe Biden is called a radical leftist is hilarious to me, and I think some are in need of a government refresher). There are no good options in my mind but I don’t think this is the last of this. I just can’t see a world where they keep him off Twitter forever.
They will never see it that way. They see what they want, when they want and that was evident the other day while they maliciously damaged the Capitol bldg. and violently assaulted ppl including each other in the mayhem. Then they took selfies and bragged online abt their activities. Worse, some gave interviews to the very media they purport to hate.
Trump is also banned from Face Book, too. He's the cause of Wednesday's killings & destruction. They weren't protesters. They were domestic terrorists.
It’s honestly not at all that surprising. In any eventuality Trump was going to most likely lose his social media privileges as a Private Citizen once he was out of the Presidency. A lot of people don’t seem to grasp the fact that most law or regulation regarding Social Media Entities themselves haven’t been all that well regulated or established. So it just interacts as a Wild West Saloon of sorts. Saloons are still a Privately-Owned Establishment in context, so that includes a person on Social Media. You signed a terms of user agreement, if you break it THEY CAN KICK YOU OFF. Personally, I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner with his personal account, because the fact is they could’ve had a difference in standards for Twitter with an Official Account for a World Leader versus the account of a private citizen. Now that Trump has opened that can of worms using the Official POTUS Twitter, the easiest thing the Company could’ve done is “officially” hand the account over to the Biden team early. Instead they’ll have to grapple with the headache of international users which means banning dictators and human rights abusers (which why let them on to begin with). Facebook and Twitter are basically going to have navigate that, but they choose not to deal with the problem until now. The longer someone waits to deal with a problem, the worse it gets.
Interesting point on the official POTUS account. Twitter previously went with “Blocking a world leader from Twitter or removing their controversial Tweets would hide important information people should be able to see and debate.” Not sure if/how they leave Khamenei, for example, on there now.
Referring to Twitter as a means to get information out to the masses is preposterous. He has access to the emergency alert system - that now includes smartphone alerts.
I apologize for the harsh words. Just trying to get across that it's not a good reason.
Kinda like bow the Dow being over 30k doesn't matter to the folks going days without food because they are feeding their kids.
Kinda surprised we haven’t gotten the emergency alert for “SPECIAL BROADCAST ABOUT THE RIGGED ELECTION AT 7PM ON VIMEO! BE THERE! MUCH LOVE! THANK YOU. ALL!” Tbh...
Before today, Trump officially had two accounts. His Personal Account and the @POTUS tag. During the last transition, Obama switched from @POTUS to a Personal Account, same with Biden and @VP. Basically they were accounts acting as an official user by the platform. Since I followed Biden as VP, I started getting Tweets the last four years from Mike Pence. Trump the last four years never switched and always used the @realDonaldTrump user, while his staff sent out the regular bland tweets from @POTUS. Technically, since it was still his personal account, not an official account like @POTUS, Trump’s personal account could’ve still be subject to the same rules. Now, he would’ve still tweeted the same stuff he had from his normal account, but you could’ve window dressed it as “OFFICIAL ACCOUNT” which means Twitter could’ve shrugged and gone “Hey, it’s the official account of a world leader. Our hands are tied!” And people would use a different standard for the accounts.
But he broke that argument when he tried to spamrant from that account after inciting the Attack on the Capitol. Twitter suspended the @POTUS account which means by definition, there is no difference between an Official of a Government or some bot being operated by a teenager in Omsk. And Iran blocked Twitter in their country because activists used it in the Green Revolution. So why does the Ayatollah have one to begin with?
In all honesty, I’d rather not have my potus on social media. But I’m not a social media person. I have seen social media as entertainment , until the last few years. I understand using social media as a tool. Trump over used it.
I think the only thing that will shut him down is prosecution. I've heard people say it's a bad image to show a former Pres in an orange jumpsuit but is there a worse image shown to the world than those on Jan 6? He is directly responsible for an officer dying. Gotta go.
I could not be happier, but I am very concerned. He is addicted to twitter. I think this may be similar to an addict going through withdrawals. He is already unstable. We should all worry.
Also social media has led to so many genocides. I have very little tolerance for free speech arguments. You are not owed reach, or to have followers delivered to you.
I don’t like it. Repression of freedom of speech only leads to further division. Now, all the Trump people are going to have their own platform. This further leads to isolation, more groupthink, and less critical thinking. As far as Trump, who knows what he will do.
As northeast states below, 1A free speech is only applicable to government, not Twitter. Even if it did apply, not only the law but common sense, as well, says one can’t falsely shout fire in a crowded theater. That is what trump does repeatedly.
too little too late. Twitter's suspension policy is arbitrary, not democratic. trump's tweets were racist sexist and undermined our government which led to what we all witnessed this week. i believe in free speech but yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre isn't acceptable, ever! i am glad Google suspended Parler and Apple needs to do more than threaten. As more evidence comes forward, i am horrified how close we came to losing our country. these as a woman on the cross-connection coined "vanilla isis terrorists" were there to do physical harm and hold people hostages. social media played a big part in this and needs to be looked into.
(Long, but I make a point. Bare w/me) I was stationed overseas in Europe from 2016-2019 as a military videographer and broadcaster. My command sent me to various countries in the 6th fleet (Europe and Africa) to document military exercises with our NATO allies. One of the main trainings the participating nations focused on every year was cyber warfare. Every year I wondered, "Dafuq does cyber warfare entail😐?" By the way, this information is public on DOD and NATO websites. They write these articles all the time. Unfortunately, the average American, even the "patriots," don't read these articles unless it's sensationalized news, but I digress. This s*** is probably some form of cyber warfare those trainings meant, except the exercises were thinking foreign countries, not ourselves :/.
Ex: Fake Conspiracy group creates multiple SM pages. They come up w/wild s*** to connect into theories that'll prey on internet-obsessed anti-socials with no purpose and no group to belong to. Conspiracy group recruits and gives meaning to hero complex individuals. They declare a leader to follow that represents their ideals to start a "revolution." They grow in numbers. "Leader" uses Twitter or other SM to communicate to Charles Manson-level loyal minions to do illegal dirty work. Devoted followers devise a plan that comes off domestic terror-ish but patriotic to them. The conspiracy group could be fake from the start to push their real agenda.
It may seem silly and dramatic to say it's cyber warfare. That's only because cyber warfare sounds too tactical to be connected to Twitter, Facebook, and any other social media platform. Still, we have to remember we live in a time where tech is everything, and we've become slaves to it.
**Trump loyalists didn't just casually trash Nancy Pelosi's office. You have to realize they trashed the office of the 2nd person in order of succession, that most likely had CLASSIFIED documents that they stole from and did who knows what to. Stealing anything classified can come off as espionage. They did more, but this is just a prime example. Banning him from Twitter and SM is the right thing to do. He would still get intelligence briefings after his term, so letting him keep his Twitter or any other social media platform can do more harm than good.
Also, I'm a veteran here to tell people to stop using veterans as the face of their agenda no matter what side it is. Stop putting us on a pedestal to be your poster child. Veterans are also people with different opinions and should not be put into one box. Stop having "Who's More Patriotic and American" contests. Chillll.
Yes! I first read about this tactic 15 or so years ago - but the book is far older: Ender's Game.
Although the main story is about Ender, the sub-story about his siblings taking over the minds of Earth by posing as people in leadership position scared me much more because I new it was possible.
And fast-forward to Cambridge Analytica and 'The Great Hack' and it came to life. And even further with QAnon now.
I’m a Texas girl so this topic is something that is very controversial amongst my family/friend group so I put a lot of thought into my feelings on this. I was torn on who to vote for but after the events on Wednesday I think myself and a lot of people on the fence like me were disgusted by what happened and horrified and many here would have voted differently if they could have a do over. I am happy with the social media bans only because I know firsthand the influence that Trump and others had on people over the last few years especially leading up to this election that scared people and misled them. These friends say things that are so cult like that shock me. Well educated and well-meaning people. I feel like if they see support from the outside world of how crazy this is that maybe it will change their mind.
Canada here. Sorry I don’t mean to sound ignorant or presumptuous in anyway but I’ll plead guilty to both on this. Generally, we look at 74M ppl voting for Trump and we literally melt in our igloos. So given everything he has done up until Nov 3, what was there to be torn about? Is it the policies his admin brought about or is it I could never vote Dem. or something in btw? Again it’s more of an empirical curiosity? No judgement..
I can't speak for all 74M - but in my area it came down to religion. Either pro-life has always been their voting point, or they had been fooled by him and/or their pastor and believed he was Christian and quite possibly been 'strongly advised' how to vote.
But it is also true - on both sides - that there are people who vote 'the ticket' period.
I vote for the person who has the most in common with me - with education being #1 (what a shit show our system is now) and have voted blue / red and green in the past
Religion and pro choice don’t factor in for us here In voting habits so another interesting point. 74M is a large number and I knew it had to be a number of different factors
There are a lot. Take the Cubans in Miami. Many voted for Trump because he'd convinced them that a vote for Biden was a vote for Communism.
No matter how many times democratic socialism is defined, too many people see 'socialism' as a bad word. And invariably, someone gives an example of a Canadian waiting months to see a doctor or get some sort if non-emergent surgery because 'socialism'.
Nevermind the tens of millions who don't go at all because they are un/under insured.
I have also heard the pro-life argument, and just don't understand it. Mostly because Roe v Wade was decided 50 years ago, and no Republican president or Congress has overturned it in all that time. Did they really think Trump was going to accomplish it? Because at its base, Roe v Wade was about privacy, and if it was overturned, that would open a whole huge can o'worms not even related to abortion.
I just wanted to give some perspective into the pro life vote and why people still let that be the deciding factor in how they vote. I grew up Catholic in Indiana and went to Catholic school from 1st grade all the way to senior year of high school. Abortion was first brought up to us in third grade. From then on, it was talked about every year till we graduated high school. It was imbedded in us that abortion was the worst sin one could possibly commit. In 8th grade religion class, we were shown photos of an aborted fetus. We were then taken down to the abortion clinic, and prayed the rosary outside of it. It makes quite a strong impression on a 13 year old. In high school, we had guest speakers telling us the importance of being pro life. Basically, if you were not pro life, you were going to burn in hell for all of eternity. They also prepared on how to vote: pro life. Pro life is of course linked to the Republican Party. Also, my schools were small. I was with about 75 kids who went to school with each other from 1st to 8th grade. They all believed the same things as I did. They all came from similar families. We all looked like each other. High school was no different. Just a few more Catholic grade schools combining to make the next high school class who were taught everything we were taught. Copy and paste. We all lived in a very insular bubble for 12 years. When you don’t have anyone who has a different religion, different family life, different anything to you; you believe your way is the right way- the only way. That mindset is very hard to unlearn. The only way I was able to get out of it was by popping the bubble I lived in and educating myself to other people’s lives, beliefs, perspectives, cultures etc. Only then was I able to see that pro life is not the only issue I should vote on. Most of my former classmates still live in that bubble. Many married each other and are sending their kids to the same schools they went to. Those beliefs are being passed down to the next generation. Copy and paste. I no longer consider myself Catholic (though I still pray like one) and have since moved to Southern California and married an Englishman who is half
Indian half white. I broke that cycle, but as stated before, many have not and continue to base how they vote on how they were raised pro life.
They did and it might happen. Many states have already made it all but impossible to get one. And now The Supreme Court has a majority with judges who are pro-life.
And (no disrespect to Reps - this is my own observation) it seems to me that the right to privacy is only when it applies to them. If it affects someone else's but not theirs, all bets are off (again - just my observation).
But when it comes to abortion, specifically, they believe life starts at conception. Nevermind that more than 30% of pregnancies terminate naturally.
Honestly - I am po-life when it comes to myself, but I will not pretend to know what I'd do when put in someone else's situation.
It might be different if they cared about the child after it was born.
Ugh. I have to stop. This isn't the topic. Suffice it to say, it's not an issue of privacy.
I love that question! So many of us here were raised to vote Republican/conservative. It was never about Trump for me or them. He just happened to be the candidate. It’s supposed to be about the policies and the ideals more than the person but I hit a point where the candidate no longer made it about anything but himself and could no longer support that.
Thanks. There’s a multitude of reasons to align with a party and tradition is one I’m guessing. It’s interesting to see though as here we don’t have a strong tradition of voting for one party only. I’ve voted for 2 of the 3 parties at least once or twice
It’s unbelievable how many racists there are & the dog whistles brought them together & gave them purpose. They think they are saving the country from Communism.
My stepmom in Oklahoma went from a quiet, sweet lady who loves to shop to a QAnon nut-job who now thinks that *i’m* her enemy who is a radical socialist. My dad is broken-hearted & loves me but doesn’t want me to break up his marriage by visiting. 😭
Even one of my (ex)friends in Seattle fell for it. I think a sense of purpose is what she gets out of it. I am still so puzzled by it all.
I have never been that political but after I saw the video of George Floyd being lunched, I stood up & expressed my horror & rebuke loudly on social media. Now I have lots of family who wrote me off. And I had Black acquaintances & friends pm me to thank me.... It was worth it.
I am so frustrated & disappointed to see how many blatant racists came out of the woodwork.
My step father (who I had blocked on Messenger last summer for sending propaganda and unblocked after the election because I thought it was 'safe') sent a video to my siblings and I just this evening. Guy starts saying 'I heard...' So I stop it and trace it to a conservative profile.
So I ask if he'd verified whatever is on there or did he just want believe it to be true?
No answer yet (a few hours later).
My point: none of the Trumplicans on my list (because I'm from Alabama and I feel you) have had a change of heart.
"What about the burned police station?"
"Antifa infiltrated and were the violent ones"
"Oh NOW you care about violence against police"
One called me a sheep.
This has been the only time in my life I have not been able to at least get through to where they'd consider the alternative. Every time I've produced proof, it was dismissed as left-wing propoganda (the AP! Reuters!)
I don't know what to do. This problem will be generational I think. How do you deprogram this?
Yes, we now have generation(s) that dont know a time when social media didn’t exist. However it’s the older generations that think that everything on the internet is real cuz it all looks like the 6pm news. I actually think grandkids need to school granps and grandma on the dangers of what you read on the web
Problem is that’s the quickest long term way to fix it. I didn’t take any sort of media course until High School and College. People are starting to grasp that there’s so many sources of information out there in this era that people need a skill set to weed them out. Misinformation and Propaganda are like a disease. It can’t outright be cured, but it can be vaccinated.
The last 25 years of Selective Exposure have really made that situation evident. I could argue over the fair use doctrine, but in reality people are just feeding themselves into these areas with help from social media algorithms and network/media personalities pushing reinforcement of their own beliefs. It makes admitting when you’re wrong the end of the world for some people. Which it’s not.
That’s what makes people have their own sets of facts, but when people say it’s a chicken (the media producer) or the egg (the consumer) that came first unfortunately the answer is “yes”.
Agree. My son, 13, during lockdown last spring, when they were faced with having to do things a little different , had a math teacher that taught them how to balance a checkbook and research the price of cars and rent and make a full budget it was fantastic!!
I am so sorry this has happened to you, and I totally understand where you're coming from. The same thing has happened to me and I have told people that I don't think any of the Trump followers (and I call them followers because it is cult-like) would ever believe anything that is agains Trump, even if it happened right in front of them. Blocking him on social media may be a beginning, but I'm afraid it may be too little, too late.
I have an honest question for you, since based on your post it sounds like you did vote for him, or at least have insight into people that did. And I truly mean no disrespect., but it is something that I just cannot wrap my head around... How can people that consider themselves Christian or conservative, or a member of any mainstream religion, look at Trump's words & actions & morals & character in comparison to their own values and beliefs and morals , and still believe that he was the right choice for president and should even be re-elected? I am an agnostic liberal, but I am an Arkansas girl, and also come from a pretty conservative family of die-hard Republicans. I have had my opinion on him since 2016. But he was elected, and it was what it was. And then he was even worse the past 4 years than he was during the 2016 campaign. And I know there are die hard MAGA people. But I thought for sure, he would lose voters this election. But he didn't - he got even more. And seeing how many people voted for him, and how some of my own friends and family support him and posted his garbage...it just makes my heart hurt to see how big the divide is, how different the definition is, between me and people I love dearly, on what is acceptable behavior and character for the president of our country.
I have to agree with Brooke. The gaslighting is strong. He uses a tactic of repetative speech and no one is immune called 'the illusory truth effect'
And then there is 'Wizard's First Rule': People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
I hear you and I didn’t say that I voted for him I just said that I was on the fence because it was important to a lot of people in my life that I did vote for him. From my personal experience only, I can say that many people in my life/community that may not have voted before, voted for him because of so much of what they saw on social media not knowing that it was false which is, back to the topic, why I fully agree with the social media bans. They were misled.
Wow for people who didn’t vote and were compelled to vote because of what they read on social media, really is fascinating to me. I agree with some type of social media ban. I think the suspension is “better late than never”. Coupled with losing the presidency it renders him impotent as he has no power to feed this “revolution”. For how long is the question...
We are probably not terribly divided on most issues if we got a straight, consistent story from politicians. Our nation is polarized because of intentionally bad messaging from politicians. Political statements need to be regulated for Public Health. Fine them for lying and then require them to double-down to fix the damage from lies.
Yes. In my life it’s been good people that join the cause to “eliminate child trafficking” not realizing that is how they get brainwashed. These are wealthy women thinking it’s a philanthropy.
Which is good! But they didn't ban the Chinese Embassy from tweeting right?
I don't know Twitter/content moderation policies enough to be informed on that one, but could be an issue of it getting to higher levels/there's an ongoing US coup that's taking up their time.
(Doesn't excuse it and the Uighurs plight/consignment/deaths is also ongoing like the coup)
Yashar's Twitter policy for authoritarians earlier today seems like the way to handle that separate but still important issue.
I believe the relatively new issues regarding social media have the people in control flying blind . If there was some kind of history of Pol Pot or Pinochet using social media it would make decisions much easier. If Fujimori used social media during his auto coup, DJT might not have done so much damage.
I get why the issues of the Uigers and the current coup are being talked about together because there are connections. Also agree that the socials, for all their founders talk, are run by people that are winging it and this is all new (that said, those are sweet checks and options they're cashing in and grappling with that kind of power is what the money is for.)
There is a crude analogy that isn't meant to address the depths of the two topics, but illustrates where they diverge for me. Right now one topic (Uighur plight) is about what plays on the radio station normally. The other topic (DJT and his faction) is about should we, the democratic faction, secure the radio station so it can't be used to further organize and inflame the insurrection.
There's this weird energy like its over already and how could they? They're still going!
It's not a hypothetical anymore, someone actually "crossed the Rubicon" in the old phrasing and "tweeted directions to take the Capitol Building" in the new phrasing. And right now political, economic, and security leaders have had to make that call that this is a coup and where they stand. Frankly if they're not, if they're humoring him for a couple more weeks and whats the harm, the death toll will climb more than it will on the current track (there will be more unfortunately cause this isn't done).
My favorite Asian proverb is: “The higher a monkey climbs, the more it exposes its ass.” There comes a moment, an “emperor has no clothes” moment, when it is impossible not to recognize evil for what it is. For most of us, when that moment comes, evil is confronted, contained and restrained. That’s what we’re seeing happen right now, and it is a predictable and appropriate response to a critical challenge to our democracy and way of life. Make no mistake, we just avoided a dictatorship of the minority, led by an unhinged mad man who would be king.
I think every business has the right to do what they want, most especially stores like Google & Apple. What really troubles me is the inconsistency in the enforcement of rules. If the rules were consistently enforced 1. Trump would have been banned long ago. I mean, really, those last two tweets were the final straw? Give me a break. And 2. Thousands more would be banned from countries which have posted far more egregious things than what Trump posted today. It’s annoying. I hate trump, and I won’t miss him on Twitter, but I just can not believe the way these social media companies have handled themselves.
I am strongly opposed to Trump and think he should be impeached again, but Twitter saying "President Trump’s statement that he will not be attending the Inauguration is being received by a number of his supporters as further confirmation that the election was not legitimate and is seen as him disavowing his previous claim made via two Tweets (1, 2) by his Deputy Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, that there would be an “orderly transition” on January 20th." seems a bit bogus.
Oh but they aren't wrong! Do you follow any of these people or look at what they post?? I do and it's terrifying. And they ARE calling on everyone to show up and finish what they started I've seen various dates of 1-16 through 1-20 and many of them are interpreting what Trump tweeted today exactly the way Twitter spelled it out in their statement.
My four year old throws his share of toddler temper tantrums. He can't help it, he's four. But *nothing* compares to the tantrum he throws when we take away the iPad.
(seriously, it's like world war 3. If you have a young kid, you know what I'm talking about)
The tantrums we are seeing on Twitter tonight remind me a lot of that. People, even politicians, tweeting in ALL CAPS about the followers they've lost. It's embarrassing.
I firmly believe private companies like Twitter, Facebook etc have the right to ban whomever they want. And I certainly support their right to do so. I just don't think it was a good decision to ban Trump at this point, so close to the end of his term. And I am uncomfortable with the idea that three major tech companies can so easily decide to erase and eject anyone from the internet, including the sitting president of the United States. The inconsistency behind these decisions is also disconcerting; the CCP can openly brag about genocide on Twitter and yet their account remains active. I think that if you try to hide speech you don't like, it simply goes underground and festers -- it does not disappear. Those Trump supporters so steeped in conspiracy who believe the election was stolen will now see this latest move by big tech as proof that they were right all along (totally unfounded and crazy but still, will easily feed their narrative).
the harm that trump will do even when he is out of office is unimaginable. he has shown that he delights in revenge to those who he believes have betrayed him. he will never let this go, never. i am a proponent of fairness. private companies like the twitter, certainly can do whatever they want re their policy, but to call it democratic is unacceptable. i am not sure what ccp stands for but i agree they should be suspended.
These actions are temporary. Companies aren't trying to be on the right side of history, they just want eyes-off until they can claim free speech again. Trumps loss of power, when hindered by impeachment or just out of office, would be cited as reason he is no longer a threat? He is after all, white. And companies are being 'good' to stave off future regulations or punishments. They definitely don't want to be in (mostly congress's) conversation of insurrection past the memo's and statements they're making, akin to the performative BLM ones months ago. No credit, it's way too late for a terms and services stance, or a moral stance. Maybe they'll point to Trump like a participation trophy when new horror rises, and thus debate endlessly about how much is/isn't like Trump.
Long overdue. Shouting “Fire” in a crowded theatre is not protected speech. Trump has essentially been doing so via every communication outlet he can access. Should have been banned immediately as he has never done anything but lie and incite to violence.
It would be easier to accept if they enforced their policies in some sensical way. As long as we have the Chinese government openly advocating forced sterilization on Twitter it all seems like political nonsense.
It is also not Twitter’s right to do so. They sought and received special protections as a common carrier and should act like one or drop the protection.
I think this will be their new shtik (republicans, trumpers and the like) They Want To Silence You, Communism, blah blah, which will give new life to them and will incite them even more.
It’s too little too late. I give them credit for doing it now, but he’s been a threat since day one and Americans have been in this toxic emotionally abusive relationship with him and some of his ardent followers for a long time, especially us black folk - we tried to warn ppl like man others. We are traumatized, and the damage is done. Perhaps social media and other platforms should have cared just as much when Charlottesville happened. I mean just look at today, you see a comparison to the terrorist attacks that we just witnessed in the capital people are literally trying to “stop the steal” of our FAIR election. Fox News went on a whataboutism spree today and started comparing black lives matter protest to this terror attack when not one of us BLM ppl have ever committed a coup, an OBVIOUS distinction - but just like trump I think Fox News thinks it’s important to teach their supporters how to be victims at all times. Social media censorship will help but there is still a large amount of misinformation on so many other platforms including television. Fox News is literally telling their millions of followers that we hate all trump supporters, We are going to take over, etc. Trump literally started his political career with racist Birtherism remarks regarding Obama. His resume is shit and shows very clear history of racism and yet somehow Hillary Clinton was too evil to vote for even after he stated that Mexicans are rapists and grab a woman by the Pussy. I think we are living in a moment where we have to acknowledge this is turning into various cults as we see with Qanon and while the censorship is important, it’s obvious that the damage is already done and we need to start thinking about how do we deprogram people from this extremist ideology that can obviously turn into domestic terrorism.
Setting aside a private business choosing what their users/employees post (not a 1st amendment issue), I think revisiting net-neutrality would be prudent. It is a complex issue that warrants its own discussion; pay to play, accessibility, being just two that come to mind.
I think the suspensions are fair. We sign up to use these social media platforms and play by their rules. Just like Twitter has locked accounts for hours when civilians violate the terms - this is no different, just on a larger scale when it’s a powerful person is using Twitter’s platform to incite violence and spread misinformation.
In all my 65 years, I never thought I would see this type of abuse of power in America. It saddens me to see how low some people will stoop just to prove a point. These megalomaniacs need to be taken down several notches. The whole purpose of social media is to be able to share your thoughts and opinions with others, whether others agree with those thoughts and opinions or not. To silence anyone simply because you don't like them or what they say - and these people have shown their hatred and bias on a daily basis for the last four years - makes you a tyrant with a god complex. I've watched these men go before Congress and lie through their teeth about manipulation of data, as well as targeting certain people because they don't share the same political views or religious beliefs. It is censorship to almost the highest level. Next, they will have people arrested who post anything they disagree with.
The thing is—that is exactly what Trump has been doing in his office. He is using his government as a way to shut down and oppress a democratically elected and legitimate fair election. That had been the entire point of his office—to decide what he wants to be the truth and to punish anyone who disagrees with him or who won’t do it. No other president has fired or censored so many in his circle. It’s literally what he has always done. And he is the government. That is wrong.
A private company censoring a man who encourages mass violence? Not protected.
I listened to his speech, and not once did I hear anything even remotely akin to him "inciting violence." I did hear him call for peace, and also telling them to go home. On the other hand, I have heard the media and Democratic congressmen and women actually telling their constituents to use violence against anyone who supported the President. And that was not from the media, but right out of the speakers own mouth. But you're right about one thing: "It's not because they don't like him", it's because they hate him. Are you aware that a mere eighteen minutes after he was sworn in, they were already working on impeaching him? They have fought him every second of every day of his presidency. He still accomplished so many wonderful things for not just the American people, but also for other countries. I can only imagine what he might have accomplished if he hadn't had to deal with all the false accusations and other bs that was thrown at him.
Trump signed a law to make cruelty to animals a federal felony so that animal abusers face tougher consequences.
That was a bill co-sponsored by my Republican congressman (to explain how it got past Mitch) that he merely signed when it got to hos desk.
The Space Force - while cool - 'isn't that great' (how does it benefit us?)
So, I challenge you to go down that list of 'laws he's passed' and pull out the ones he actually presented to Congress and worked to GET passed, that are truly great and benefits us - the common American - and not his friends/donors/people he owes money/favors to
I would like for you to provide proof of the congressmen and women telling their constituents to use violence please. I don't recall hearing or seeing anything like that, but like Evie pointed out, #45 has, from the beginning of his campaigning, continued to use violent language - "Mexico only sends criminals, drug dealers, rapists" and when talking about removing a protester at one of his rally's he said, "get him the hell out of here" and "“Maybe he should have been roughed up" or look up the January 6 rally where a Muslim women stood up in SILENT protest and was escorted out while people yelled things at her like "do you have a bomb!" because he had suggested that Syrian refugees fleeing war were affiliated with ISIS". Remember when he made fun of a disabled journalist? Or "“If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell out of them. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise." Here, let me give uou this link so you can go read and remind yourself of the hateful rhetoric he campaigned with and continued throughout his time in office. https://www.vox.com/21506029/trump-violence-tweets-racist-hate-speech
I can't think of anything else except the current wild ass situation. It's taking away my ability to think more than a week into the future. The madness has to stop. How much more can we take?
Long overdue. TMP continues to egg on seditionists, incite violence, and recite lies. If I owned a business and a customer repeatedly came in and trashed the place I would no longer let them in the door. Private business can run their operations they way they see fit, within the boundaries of the law. FB, Twitter, etc are not state-run media (thank God).
He should be shut down because he incites violence. But what is missing from this conversation is the algorithm effect, technology, profit, tech companies and misinformation all are intertwined in a new way.
I'm happy to see they are finally taking action. Trump and others have gotten away for far too long with lies and inciting violence. Lives could have been saved if this had been done, earlier, but I'm happy to see it happen now, even though we're already seeing the "censorship" tweets/posts beginning.
Long overdue. I agree with your assessment that leaders of oppressive countries should be restrained as well. Only fear is not knowing what's going on in his head at every moment.
Obviously I'm a proponent of freedom of expression, but the level of discourse of certain groups has not only become toxic, it's now overtly violent. I can understand any concerns to an extent, but this had to happen. This is a consequence of attempting to overthrow democracy.
From the sound of it it seems like they're not going to be able to remove him from office in the next eight days, which means that the intention seems to be dragging this out for as long as possible for as much political capital as possible
Because I tend to be pragmatic or practical-minded, for years I struggled with the concept of "Facebook". When I decided to dip my toe into the pool that is Facebook I realized it was misnamed, because it should be called "Fakebook" to reflect the overall reality.
I gave up on Fakebook Black Friday 2015 when I realized that by using Fakebook I was being used by Fakebook, and I also realized that "Social Media" is equally misnamed owing to the undeniable fact most 'Social Media' is anti-social. Again, from a practical perspective I could not understand the concept because the potential has been squandered.
A demanding standard was applied to President Trump through "Social Media". Respectfully, will the standard be applied equally to his successor?
Twitter is not the problem, people who commit violent acts are. There is a long history of white Americans committing violent acts against
Other Americans. Not just Timothy McVeigh. Do yourselves a service and do your internet search on the heinous acts perpetrated against black
Americans by White Americans!
Start with Lynching. This is what only white Americans are allowed to get away with for majority of the participants. You younger commentators check out your white history of violence.
Twitter and @Jack made a lot of money from Trump, who brought with him thousands of news users and increased daily traffic. They allowed him to personally attack anyone, including businesses, media, and journalists, who spoke against him. To close his account after he lost the elections is no different than Lindsey Graham distancing himself from the president after he used his support to get reelected.
He wants to start his own channel but I don’t see how he can pull together if big tech chose to not work with him.. For example, they could refuse to host their Cloud data making it more complicated for him to undertake building the entire solution solo.
I think his days are over and he is going down hard. His influence will lessen although there will always be the hard-core followers who will make him a martyr. I wonder about his kids. How does their future look? Shunned? Or next Florida Governor? Do people start relocating to Florida to be with their kind?
what happens to his enablers?
How do we hold politicians accountable for messaging? Politicians must stop lying and conspiring. How do we dial down propaganda ads and go back to the basics when it comes to politics? I think they should be held accountable if they publish lies online. This must stop!! It was remarkable to see how many of the ppl who they manipulated & they lost their lives fighting for Trump were cognitively slow, recovering addicted, etc. QAnon is praying on a lot of vulnerable ppl with conspiracies.
I’m looking at it the same way Simon & Schuster cancelled Hawley’s book contract. It’s their prerogative. He can get his book published somewhere else. Trump enjoyed Twitter bcuz it gave him access to millions of people who otherwise would want nothing to do with him. Now he has to figure another way to do it - the old fashioned way. It’s a free platform - they own the rules and now they have to enforce them which is probably a harder job than Trump has finding a new platform.
He also loved Twitter as a platform because he could just spout and RT garbage with little pushback or anyone in person holding him accountable for what he says. It's why he hates journalists even though he has absolute access to every news organization out there.
Sounds like, both Simon & Schuster and Twitter are publishers. The first one, obviously so, but the second one has been a point of prior contention.
It's a necessity as a matter of national security not just here domestically, but internationally as well. Yes, we want freedom of speech, and do not want the manifestation of 1984, or scenes from V for Vendetta. But there are already reports that his supporters were being emboldened, and galvanized to plan a secondary DOMESTIC TERRORIST attack on January 17th, and other days subsequently. Therefore, it is a necessity to shut him down, on every single form of media, and it's sweet that it is "Big Tech" that is doing it. If he wants to speak, he can bust out a typewriter and put out a "Presidential Statement", the traditional way. His conduct was given the longest leash in the world, and unfortunately, NOW he has been perceived to have gone too far. There's a trove of opportunities in which action could have been taken. And now there is a trove of those complicit, such as Ted Cruz and the Josh Hawley's of the world. They should be subjected to prosecution by the full extent of the law, as well. In the words of Simon & Schuster, "This BOOK has been CANCELLED!"
Well said.
As someone noted today: Freedom of Reach vs. Freedom of Speech.
Good one. His freedom of speech has not been touched only a mechanism like a broken pen. It is his favorite mechanism to reach out but it doesn't curtail his 1stA rights. No where in the Constitution is Twitter or Facebook mentioned, no where.
From the statements released by the socials, this is being done because the coup is still ongoing and not simply something that started and ended Wednesday. We're not in the clean up phase and the worry in particular is the inauguration.
Its not a speech issue, its counterterrorism according to them.
I'd be surprised if they weren't following protocols established for a foreign terrorist attack now applied to continuing domestic terrorism.
Agreed...many, including the media, are missing the forest for the trees. There is an ongoing violent threat from Trump's radicalized base. The only hope is that federal agencies will act with far more urgency to the imminent new threats than they did to the clearly broadcast January 6th open insurrection literally broadcast on Twitter by the CIC.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Counterterrorism that we can see. What about the other rightwing platforms. I saw a video recently of Graham Allen on FaceBook live inviting all of Trump followers to leave FaceBook and join him on Parler. How do we know that he hasn't been suspended from that platform and isn't still stirring up his followers to continue the attacks in different states? That is what I'm terrified about. I know he's dangerous, but at least we could all see his dangerous rhetoric. I'm more worried about what we CAN'T see or hear.
"its counterterrorism according to them" link please
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html
This is the official Twitter statement.
Too much to block quote, but the two posts they site from Jan 8, which aren't his worst which is being pointed out fairly, they talk about how now they see it as possible signal that his lack of POTUS presence would make it an ideal attack.
The socials work with federal agencies monitoring and logging accounts and decoding messages related to terrorism and nation security.
Its difficult, but these days not impossible, that the socials would even obliquely state that it might be "chatter" for a further attack by the President of the United States against Americans while this is ongoing if this wasn't a concerted effort among all of them. Also if it wasn't based at least in part on work with federal agencies that agree.
Looking for old reports about how social media handles foreign terrorists to see if it matches the current actions specifically.
It’s obviously a very credible concern.
Thanks for the link.
Twitter: Addressing the abuse of tech to spread terrorist and extremist content
15 May 2019
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/addressing-the-abuse-of-tech-to-spread-terrorist-and-extremist-c.html
From their recent moves, its the Four Collaborative Actions...in action.
(I don't follow this stuff enough to know why this statement was initially given on its policies, new and old, but its relevant at the very least for context and judgement of how they are acting)
On a completely separate topic: I am *really* opposed to the self-appointed internet sleuths who are trying to ID the capitol rioters themselves. We should *not* be encouraging that behavior. Remember what happened with Reddit and the Boston Marathon bombers? Just let the FBI do their jobs, they're really good at it.
Sorry Yashar, I know it's off-subject, but I had to write that somewhere.
I agree with you on that. If you have tips, give them to reporters and law enforcement who can vett things. No one should have their life ruined after being misidentified.
The thing is with other media—there has always been some sort of guiding mediator—running for office is essentially selling your brand. A brand is not allowed to repeatedly advertise that their product without does something that it has been proven it does not. Suggest, sure—promise? No. People believe him, as a brand—and people follow him—we are entitled to opinions and to thoughts, not to create new truths. He has created an entire world full of bogus claims and lies. It’s worse than Hitler, honestly.
Also I resent that no one ever mentions the fact that all of our freedoms in the constitution—freedom as it is defined—is only guaranteed as freedom—in so much as it doesn’t prevent, or or infringe upon any other citizens right to freedom. Thus—not wearing a mask is not your freedom—as it impress my freedom to live...etc etc. Seeing as Trumps rhetoric repeatedly calls for his freedom at the expense of others freedom of well being—he deserves none of it.
With freedom comes responsibility.
It’s fascinating that trumpers are more angry about trump’s social media bans than they are why he was banned. Additionally, someone needs to explain to them “free speech” does not mean free from consequences. The 1st amendment guarantees you won’t suffer governmental repercussions, but social media platforms are private companies.
Well said, not only that, but they REFUSE to acknowledge what truly occurred, lives lost, and it's a bit ironic that they stand for "Blue Lives Matter" given the events that have just transpired.
I’m genuinely scared for the next few days/weeks. I just don’t see how this ends well. No matter what scenario plays out, I’m more scared for the safety and future of our country than I’ve ever been. :(
I agree, Colleen. The reality is that this needed to happen years ago, when tempers weren't so high. It's not bad that it happened, but that it happened at THIS moment will further radicalize the most dangerous among us.
This should have happened a long time ago, when it was possible to take a firm stance against violent hate speech and it hadn't radicalized so many people. Now, he's already had so long to brainwash his rabid, militant followers who will follow him anywhere & believe that all reliable media organizations are against them. The filth he's been allowed to spread isn't going away.
I agree. Who knows what happens now?
He set the precedent himself by going after TikTok as a political stunt. He should have been banned for attacking these platforms from the Office of the President.
After watching the 40 min video of what unfolded at the Capitol, taking a tour through Maga-land social media and digesting Twitter's statement which lays out very clearly why they took this step, my only regret is they didn't act sooner.
I would have preferred his removal from office than the Twitter ban. I understand why Twitter did what they did but I feel like this move would be, for both Trump and his followers, like a wild animal being cornered. They will lash out with out a care. And with out the platform for release, you never know what he and his followers are going to do or how much worse it could be.
Isn’t it beyond ridiculous to have this concern about the leader of our government? SMDH! There should be a psychiatric evaluation for candidates re government leaders. So many thoughts about situations that shouldn’t happen.
And a civics test.
It's always worse before it gets better when you finally start disciplining your kid.
Yes, but the sad thing is these are not kids throwing tantrum. These are adults capable of adult size atrocities. We would be naive of us to think that this would teach them a lesson and they’ll just go away.
Exactly. The older the are - the worse the fallout. I'm truly concerned.
Makes me a bit anxious, we're only 12 days out and we don't know how he'll react.
I’m honestly torn. I understand Twitters perspective and imagine they feel risk of being accused of facilitating another attack if coordination happens on Twitter. I also worry that this confirms what many Trump supporters think; that the left wing wants to censor everything so we can install a communist government. (Sidenote: the fact that Joe Biden is called a radical leftist is hilarious to me, and I think some are in need of a government refresher). There are no good options in my mind but I don’t think this is the last of this. I just can’t see a world where they keep him off Twitter forever.
Inciting riots is not censorship. Think calling fire in a theatre. Not censorship. Not protected speech.
I agree! But I don’t think most on the right see it that way, that was my point.
They will never see it that way. They see what they want, when they want and that was evident the other day while they maliciously damaged the Capitol bldg. and violently assaulted ppl including each other in the mayhem. Then they took selfies and bragged online abt their activities. Worse, some gave interviews to the very media they purport to hate.
His supporters already think that. Sure, they can 'call it out' but they've already been gaslit long before now.
VP-elect Kamala Harris called for his Twitter account to be suspended time and time again and it fell on deaf ears.
She was scoffed at by Elizabeth Warren for it. Chris Hayes didn’t take her seriously. Progressives everywhere thought it was a joke.
The attack on the Capitol two days ago however was not a joke. An attacked called on by Trump via Twitter on Jan 6.
Those are the facts. He used a social media platform to incite violence and it led to death.
Trump is also banned from Face Book, too. He's the cause of Wednesday's killings & destruction. They weren't protesters. They were domestic terrorists.
The ban from Facebook isn't permanent though. It's until January 20 and will be reevaluated. But yes he's off Twitter forever.
Wasn't he also banned from Snapchat, or Instagram?
Instagram til inauguration (owned by Facebook)
I don't know about Snap
It’s honestly not at all that surprising. In any eventuality Trump was going to most likely lose his social media privileges as a Private Citizen once he was out of the Presidency. A lot of people don’t seem to grasp the fact that most law or regulation regarding Social Media Entities themselves haven’t been all that well regulated or established. So it just interacts as a Wild West Saloon of sorts. Saloons are still a Privately-Owned Establishment in context, so that includes a person on Social Media. You signed a terms of user agreement, if you break it THEY CAN KICK YOU OFF. Personally, I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner with his personal account, because the fact is they could’ve had a difference in standards for Twitter with an Official Account for a World Leader versus the account of a private citizen. Now that Trump has opened that can of worms using the Official POTUS Twitter, the easiest thing the Company could’ve done is “officially” hand the account over to the Biden team early. Instead they’ll have to grapple with the headache of international users which means banning dictators and human rights abusers (which why let them on to begin with). Facebook and Twitter are basically going to have navigate that, but they choose not to deal with the problem until now. The longer someone waits to deal with a problem, the worse it gets.
Interesting point on the official POTUS account. Twitter previously went with “Blocking a world leader from Twitter or removing their controversial Tweets would hide important information people should be able to see and debate.” Not sure if/how they leave Khamenei, for example, on there now.
Referring to Twitter as a means to get information out to the masses is preposterous. He has access to the emergency alert system - that now includes smartphone alerts.
I apologize for the harsh words. Just trying to get across that it's not a good reason.
Kinda like bow the Dow being over 30k doesn't matter to the folks going days without food because they are feeding their kids.
Kinda surprised we haven’t gotten the emergency alert for “SPECIAL BROADCAST ABOUT THE RIGGED ELECTION AT 7PM ON VIMEO! BE THERE! MUCH LOVE! THANK YOU. ALL!” Tbh...
replace Vimeo with TikTok ;-)
I understand your reasoning; for I too, love Irony. However, I find it highly unlikely.
Before today, Trump officially had two accounts. His Personal Account and the @POTUS tag. During the last transition, Obama switched from @POTUS to a Personal Account, same with Biden and @VP. Basically they were accounts acting as an official user by the platform. Since I followed Biden as VP, I started getting Tweets the last four years from Mike Pence. Trump the last four years never switched and always used the @realDonaldTrump user, while his staff sent out the regular bland tweets from @POTUS. Technically, since it was still his personal account, not an official account like @POTUS, Trump’s personal account could’ve still be subject to the same rules. Now, he would’ve still tweeted the same stuff he had from his normal account, but you could’ve window dressed it as “OFFICIAL ACCOUNT” which means Twitter could’ve shrugged and gone “Hey, it’s the official account of a world leader. Our hands are tied!” And people would use a different standard for the accounts.
But he broke that argument when he tried to spamrant from that account after inciting the Attack on the Capitol. Twitter suspended the @POTUS account which means by definition, there is no difference between an Official of a Government or some bot being operated by a teenager in Omsk. And Iran blocked Twitter in their country because activists used it in the Green Revolution. So why does the Ayatollah have one to begin with?
In all honesty, I’d rather not have my potus on social media. But I’m not a social media person. I have seen social media as entertainment , until the last few years. I understand using social media as a tool. Trump over used it.
I think the only thing that will shut him down is prosecution. I've heard people say it's a bad image to show a former Pres in an orange jumpsuit but is there a worse image shown to the world than those on Jan 6? He is directly responsible for an officer dying. Gotta go.
I could not be happier, but I am very concerned. He is addicted to twitter. I think this may be similar to an addict going through withdrawals. He is already unstable. We should all worry.
Also social media has led to so many genocides. I have very little tolerance for free speech arguments. You are not owed reach, or to have followers delivered to you.
I don’t like it. Repression of freedom of speech only leads to further division. Now, all the Trump people are going to have their own platform. This further leads to isolation, more groupthink, and less critical thinking. As far as Trump, who knows what he will do.
As northeast states below, 1A free speech is only applicable to government, not Twitter. Even if it did apply, not only the law but common sense, as well, says one can’t falsely shout fire in a crowded theater. That is what trump does repeatedly.
I agree, he and other people have said much worse and they still have accounts, 1st amendment is too important here.
I agree too. But 1A addresses government control of free speech; not applicable to private entities.
True, and it is like yelling fire in a theater. I told my Mom today, Trump lit the match for a group of people that haven't been "accepted" before.
too little too late. Twitter's suspension policy is arbitrary, not democratic. trump's tweets were racist sexist and undermined our government which led to what we all witnessed this week. i believe in free speech but yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre isn't acceptable, ever! i am glad Google suspended Parler and Apple needs to do more than threaten. As more evidence comes forward, i am horrified how close we came to losing our country. these as a woman on the cross-connection coined "vanilla isis terrorists" were there to do physical harm and hold people hostages. social media played a big part in this and needs to be looked into.
(Long, but I make a point. Bare w/me) I was stationed overseas in Europe from 2016-2019 as a military videographer and broadcaster. My command sent me to various countries in the 6th fleet (Europe and Africa) to document military exercises with our NATO allies. One of the main trainings the participating nations focused on every year was cyber warfare. Every year I wondered, "Dafuq does cyber warfare entail😐?" By the way, this information is public on DOD and NATO websites. They write these articles all the time. Unfortunately, the average American, even the "patriots," don't read these articles unless it's sensationalized news, but I digress. This s*** is probably some form of cyber warfare those trainings meant, except the exercises were thinking foreign countries, not ourselves :/.
Ex: Fake Conspiracy group creates multiple SM pages. They come up w/wild s*** to connect into theories that'll prey on internet-obsessed anti-socials with no purpose and no group to belong to. Conspiracy group recruits and gives meaning to hero complex individuals. They declare a leader to follow that represents their ideals to start a "revolution." They grow in numbers. "Leader" uses Twitter or other SM to communicate to Charles Manson-level loyal minions to do illegal dirty work. Devoted followers devise a plan that comes off domestic terror-ish but patriotic to them. The conspiracy group could be fake from the start to push their real agenda.
It may seem silly and dramatic to say it's cyber warfare. That's only because cyber warfare sounds too tactical to be connected to Twitter, Facebook, and any other social media platform. Still, we have to remember we live in a time where tech is everything, and we've become slaves to it.
**Trump loyalists didn't just casually trash Nancy Pelosi's office. You have to realize they trashed the office of the 2nd person in order of succession, that most likely had CLASSIFIED documents that they stole from and did who knows what to. Stealing anything classified can come off as espionage. They did more, but this is just a prime example. Banning him from Twitter and SM is the right thing to do. He would still get intelligence briefings after his term, so letting him keep his Twitter or any other social media platform can do more harm than good.
Also, I'm a veteran here to tell people to stop using veterans as the face of their agenda no matter what side it is. Stop putting us on a pedestal to be your poster child. Veterans are also people with different opinions and should not be put into one box. Stop having "Who's More Patriotic and American" contests. Chillll.
Yes! I first read about this tactic 15 or so years ago - but the book is far older: Ender's Game.
Although the main story is about Ender, the sub-story about his siblings taking over the minds of Earth by posing as people in leadership position scared me much more because I new it was possible.
And fast-forward to Cambridge Analytica and 'The Great Hack' and it came to life. And even further with QAnon now.
Simply terrifying.
I’m a Texas girl so this topic is something that is very controversial amongst my family/friend group so I put a lot of thought into my feelings on this. I was torn on who to vote for but after the events on Wednesday I think myself and a lot of people on the fence like me were disgusted by what happened and horrified and many here would have voted differently if they could have a do over. I am happy with the social media bans only because I know firsthand the influence that Trump and others had on people over the last few years especially leading up to this election that scared people and misled them. These friends say things that are so cult like that shock me. Well educated and well-meaning people. I feel like if they see support from the outside world of how crazy this is that maybe it will change their mind.
Canada here. Sorry I don’t mean to sound ignorant or presumptuous in anyway but I’ll plead guilty to both on this. Generally, we look at 74M ppl voting for Trump and we literally melt in our igloos. So given everything he has done up until Nov 3, what was there to be torn about? Is it the policies his admin brought about or is it I could never vote Dem. or something in btw? Again it’s more of an empirical curiosity? No judgement..
I can't speak for all 74M - but in my area it came down to religion. Either pro-life has always been their voting point, or they had been fooled by him and/or their pastor and believed he was Christian and quite possibly been 'strongly advised' how to vote.
But it is also true - on both sides - that there are people who vote 'the ticket' period.
I vote for the person who has the most in common with me - with education being #1 (what a shit show our system is now) and have voted blue / red and green in the past
Well said
Religion and pro choice don’t factor in for us here In voting habits so another interesting point. 74M is a large number and I knew it had to be a number of different factors
There are a lot. Take the Cubans in Miami. Many voted for Trump because he'd convinced them that a vote for Biden was a vote for Communism.
No matter how many times democratic socialism is defined, too many people see 'socialism' as a bad word. And invariably, someone gives an example of a Canadian waiting months to see a doctor or get some sort if non-emergent surgery because 'socialism'.
Nevermind the tens of millions who don't go at all because they are un/under insured.
I have also heard the pro-life argument, and just don't understand it. Mostly because Roe v Wade was decided 50 years ago, and no Republican president or Congress has overturned it in all that time. Did they really think Trump was going to accomplish it? Because at its base, Roe v Wade was about privacy, and if it was overturned, that would open a whole huge can o'worms not even related to abortion.
I just wanted to give some perspective into the pro life vote and why people still let that be the deciding factor in how they vote. I grew up Catholic in Indiana and went to Catholic school from 1st grade all the way to senior year of high school. Abortion was first brought up to us in third grade. From then on, it was talked about every year till we graduated high school. It was imbedded in us that abortion was the worst sin one could possibly commit. In 8th grade religion class, we were shown photos of an aborted fetus. We were then taken down to the abortion clinic, and prayed the rosary outside of it. It makes quite a strong impression on a 13 year old. In high school, we had guest speakers telling us the importance of being pro life. Basically, if you were not pro life, you were going to burn in hell for all of eternity. They also prepared on how to vote: pro life. Pro life is of course linked to the Republican Party. Also, my schools were small. I was with about 75 kids who went to school with each other from 1st to 8th grade. They all believed the same things as I did. They all came from similar families. We all looked like each other. High school was no different. Just a few more Catholic grade schools combining to make the next high school class who were taught everything we were taught. Copy and paste. We all lived in a very insular bubble for 12 years. When you don’t have anyone who has a different religion, different family life, different anything to you; you believe your way is the right way- the only way. That mindset is very hard to unlearn. The only way I was able to get out of it was by popping the bubble I lived in and educating myself to other people’s lives, beliefs, perspectives, cultures etc. Only then was I able to see that pro life is not the only issue I should vote on. Most of my former classmates still live in that bubble. Many married each other and are sending their kids to the same schools they went to. Those beliefs are being passed down to the next generation. Copy and paste. I no longer consider myself Catholic (though I still pray like one) and have since moved to Southern California and married an Englishman who is half
Indian half white. I broke that cycle, but as stated before, many have not and continue to base how they vote on how they were raised pro life.
They did and it might happen. Many states have already made it all but impossible to get one. And now The Supreme Court has a majority with judges who are pro-life.
And (no disrespect to Reps - this is my own observation) it seems to me that the right to privacy is only when it applies to them. If it affects someone else's but not theirs, all bets are off (again - just my observation).
But when it comes to abortion, specifically, they believe life starts at conception. Nevermind that more than 30% of pregnancies terminate naturally.
Honestly - I am po-life when it comes to myself, but I will not pretend to know what I'd do when put in someone else's situation.
It might be different if they cared about the child after it was born.
Ugh. I have to stop. This isn't the topic. Suffice it to say, it's not an issue of privacy.
I love that question! So many of us here were raised to vote Republican/conservative. It was never about Trump for me or them. He just happened to be the candidate. It’s supposed to be about the policies and the ideals more than the person but I hit a point where the candidate no longer made it about anything but himself and could no longer support that.
Thanks. There’s a multitude of reasons to align with a party and tradition is one I’m guessing. It’s interesting to see though as here we don’t have a strong tradition of voting for one party only. I’ve voted for 2 of the 3 parties at least once or twice
It’s unbelievable how many racists there are & the dog whistles brought them together & gave them purpose. They think they are saving the country from Communism.
My stepmom in Oklahoma went from a quiet, sweet lady who loves to shop to a QAnon nut-job who now thinks that *i’m* her enemy who is a radical socialist. My dad is broken-hearted & loves me but doesn’t want me to break up his marriage by visiting. 😭
Even one of my (ex)friends in Seattle fell for it. I think a sense of purpose is what she gets out of it. I am still so puzzled by it all.
I have never been that political but after I saw the video of George Floyd being lunched, I stood up & expressed my horror & rebuke loudly on social media. Now I have lots of family who wrote me off. And I had Black acquaintances & friends pm me to thank me.... It was worth it.
I am so frustrated & disappointed to see how many blatant racists came out of the woodwork.
My step father (who I had blocked on Messenger last summer for sending propaganda and unblocked after the election because I thought it was 'safe') sent a video to my siblings and I just this evening. Guy starts saying 'I heard...' So I stop it and trace it to a conservative profile.
So I ask if he'd verified whatever is on there or did he just want believe it to be true?
No answer yet (a few hours later).
My point: none of the Trumplicans on my list (because I'm from Alabama and I feel you) have had a change of heart.
"What about the burned police station?"
"Antifa infiltrated and were the violent ones"
"Oh NOW you care about violence against police"
One called me a sheep.
This has been the only time in my life I have not been able to at least get through to where they'd consider the alternative. Every time I've produced proof, it was dismissed as left-wing propoganda (the AP! Reuters!)
I don't know what to do. This problem will be generational I think. How do you deprogram this?
Media Literacy becoming a Middle School Requirement.
Yes, we now have generation(s) that dont know a time when social media didn’t exist. However it’s the older generations that think that everything on the internet is real cuz it all looks like the 6pm news. I actually think grandkids need to school granps and grandma on the dangers of what you read on the web
Totally agree.
Don't get me started on education lol. Needs a major overhaul. Was made for people to go into industrial jobs.
Problem is that’s the quickest long term way to fix it. I didn’t take any sort of media course until High School and College. People are starting to grasp that there’s so many sources of information out there in this era that people need a skill set to weed them out. Misinformation and Propaganda are like a disease. It can’t outright be cured, but it can be vaccinated.
The last 25 years of Selective Exposure have really made that situation evident. I could argue over the fair use doctrine, but in reality people are just feeding themselves into these areas with help from social media algorithms and network/media personalities pushing reinforcement of their own beliefs. It makes admitting when you’re wrong the end of the world for some people. Which it’s not.
That’s what makes people have their own sets of facts, but when people say it’s a chicken (the media producer) or the egg (the consumer) that came first unfortunately the answer is “yes”.
Totally agree.
Kids need critical thinking classes. To learn how to cook and do their finances. To learn at their own pace. To know that failure is a /good/ thing.
And teachers need WAY more support and respect.
Agree. My son, 13, during lockdown last spring, when they were faced with having to do things a little different , had a math teacher that taught them how to balance a checkbook and research the price of cars and rent and make a full budget it was fantastic!!
I am so sorry this has happened to you, and I totally understand where you're coming from. The same thing has happened to me and I have told people that I don't think any of the Trump followers (and I call them followers because it is cult-like) would ever believe anything that is agains Trump, even if it happened right in front of them. Blocking him on social media may be a beginning, but I'm afraid it may be too little, too late.
I have an honest question for you, since based on your post it sounds like you did vote for him, or at least have insight into people that did. And I truly mean no disrespect., but it is something that I just cannot wrap my head around... How can people that consider themselves Christian or conservative, or a member of any mainstream religion, look at Trump's words & actions & morals & character in comparison to their own values and beliefs and morals , and still believe that he was the right choice for president and should even be re-elected? I am an agnostic liberal, but I am an Arkansas girl, and also come from a pretty conservative family of die-hard Republicans. I have had my opinion on him since 2016. But he was elected, and it was what it was. And then he was even worse the past 4 years than he was during the 2016 campaign. And I know there are die hard MAGA people. But I thought for sure, he would lose voters this election. But he didn't - he got even more. And seeing how many people voted for him, and how some of my own friends and family support him and posted his garbage...it just makes my heart hurt to see how big the divide is, how different the definition is, between me and people I love dearly, on what is acceptable behavior and character for the president of our country.
I have to agree with Brooke. The gaslighting is strong. He uses a tactic of repetative speech and no one is immune called 'the illusory truth effect'
And then there is 'Wizard's First Rule': People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
I hear you and I didn’t say that I voted for him I just said that I was on the fence because it was important to a lot of people in my life that I did vote for him. From my personal experience only, I can say that many people in my life/community that may not have voted before, voted for him because of so much of what they saw on social media not knowing that it was false which is, back to the topic, why I fully agree with the social media bans. They were misled.
Wow for people who didn’t vote and were compelled to vote because of what they read on social media, really is fascinating to me. I agree with some type of social media ban. I think the suspension is “better late than never”. Coupled with losing the presidency it renders him impotent as he has no power to feed this “revolution”. For how long is the question...
Also, the 2nd amendment in Texas is a HUGE single issue decider.
Oh yeah for sure for my folks too. They are convinced the 'libs will take their guns' when that's not true.
That’s 100% what they think
Sorry i’m deleting posts to fix typos. 💨
We are probably not terribly divided on most issues if we got a straight, consistent story from politicians. Our nation is polarized because of intentionally bad messaging from politicians. Political statements need to be regulated for Public Health. Fine them for lying and then require them to double-down to fix the damage from lies.
Yes. In my life it’s been good people that join the cause to “eliminate child trafficking” not realizing that is how they get brainwashed. These are wealthy women thinking it’s a philanthropy.
Off topic but I see they took down Chinese Embassy’s pro-genocide tweet about Uighurs.
Which is good! But they didn't ban the Chinese Embassy from tweeting right?
I don't know Twitter/content moderation policies enough to be informed on that one, but could be an issue of it getting to higher levels/there's an ongoing US coup that's taking up their time.
(Doesn't excuse it and the Uighurs plight/consignment/deaths is also ongoing like the coup)
Yashar's Twitter policy for authoritarians earlier today seems like the way to handle that separate but still important issue.
I believe the relatively new issues regarding social media have the people in control flying blind . If there was some kind of history of Pol Pot or Pinochet using social media it would make decisions much easier. If Fujimori used social media during his auto coup, DJT might not have done so much damage.
I get why the issues of the Uigers and the current coup are being talked about together because there are connections. Also agree that the socials, for all their founders talk, are run by people that are winging it and this is all new (that said, those are sweet checks and options they're cashing in and grappling with that kind of power is what the money is for.)
There is a crude analogy that isn't meant to address the depths of the two topics, but illustrates where they diverge for me. Right now one topic (Uighur plight) is about what plays on the radio station normally. The other topic (DJT and his faction) is about should we, the democratic faction, secure the radio station so it can't be used to further organize and inflame the insurrection.
There's this weird energy like its over already and how could they? They're still going!
It's not a hypothetical anymore, someone actually "crossed the Rubicon" in the old phrasing and "tweeted directions to take the Capitol Building" in the new phrasing. And right now political, economic, and security leaders have had to make that call that this is a coup and where they stand. Frankly if they're not, if they're humoring him for a couple more weeks and whats the harm, the death toll will climb more than it will on the current track (there will be more unfortunately cause this isn't done).
My favorite Asian proverb is: “The higher a monkey climbs, the more it exposes its ass.” There comes a moment, an “emperor has no clothes” moment, when it is impossible not to recognize evil for what it is. For most of us, when that moment comes, evil is confronted, contained and restrained. That’s what we’re seeing happen right now, and it is a predictable and appropriate response to a critical challenge to our democracy and way of life. Make no mistake, we just avoided a dictatorship of the minority, led by an unhinged mad man who would be king.
I think every business has the right to do what they want, most especially stores like Google & Apple. What really troubles me is the inconsistency in the enforcement of rules. If the rules were consistently enforced 1. Trump would have been banned long ago. I mean, really, those last two tweets were the final straw? Give me a break. And 2. Thousands more would be banned from countries which have posted far more egregious things than what Trump posted today. It’s annoying. I hate trump, and I won’t miss him on Twitter, but I just can not believe the way these social media companies have handled themselves.
I am strongly opposed to Trump and think he should be impeached again, but Twitter saying "President Trump’s statement that he will not be attending the Inauguration is being received by a number of his supporters as further confirmation that the election was not legitimate and is seen as him disavowing his previous claim made via two Tweets (1, 2) by his Deputy Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, that there would be an “orderly transition” on January 20th." seems a bit bogus.
Oh but they aren't wrong! Do you follow any of these people or look at what they post?? I do and it's terrifying. And they ARE calling on everyone to show up and finish what they started I've seen various dates of 1-16 through 1-20 and many of them are interpreting what Trump tweeted today exactly the way Twitter spelled it out in their statement.
They were looking for a reason to ban him.
My four year old throws his share of toddler temper tantrums. He can't help it, he's four. But *nothing* compares to the tantrum he throws when we take away the iPad.
(seriously, it's like world war 3. If you have a young kid, you know what I'm talking about)
The tantrums we are seeing on Twitter tonight remind me a lot of that. People, even politicians, tweeting in ALL CAPS about the followers they've lost. It's embarrassing.
I firmly believe private companies like Twitter, Facebook etc have the right to ban whomever they want. And I certainly support their right to do so. I just don't think it was a good decision to ban Trump at this point, so close to the end of his term. And I am uncomfortable with the idea that three major tech companies can so easily decide to erase and eject anyone from the internet, including the sitting president of the United States. The inconsistency behind these decisions is also disconcerting; the CCP can openly brag about genocide on Twitter and yet their account remains active. I think that if you try to hide speech you don't like, it simply goes underground and festers -- it does not disappear. Those Trump supporters so steeped in conspiracy who believe the election was stolen will now see this latest move by big tech as proof that they were right all along (totally unfounded and crazy but still, will easily feed their narrative).
the harm that trump will do even when he is out of office is unimaginable. he has shown that he delights in revenge to those who he believes have betrayed him. he will never let this go, never. i am a proponent of fairness. private companies like the twitter, certainly can do whatever they want re their policy, but to call it democratic is unacceptable. i am not sure what ccp stands for but i agree they should be suspended.
These actions are temporary. Companies aren't trying to be on the right side of history, they just want eyes-off until they can claim free speech again. Trumps loss of power, when hindered by impeachment or just out of office, would be cited as reason he is no longer a threat? He is after all, white. And companies are being 'good' to stave off future regulations or punishments. They definitely don't want to be in (mostly congress's) conversation of insurrection past the memo's and statements they're making, akin to the performative BLM ones months ago. No credit, it's way too late for a terms and services stance, or a moral stance. Maybe they'll point to Trump like a participation trophy when new horror rises, and thus debate endlessly about how much is/isn't like Trump.
Long overdue. Shouting “Fire” in a crowded theatre is not protected speech. Trump has essentially been doing so via every communication outlet he can access. Should have been banned immediately as he has never done anything but lie and incite to violence.
It would be easier to accept if they enforced their policies in some sensical way. As long as we have the Chinese government openly advocating forced sterilization on Twitter it all seems like political nonsense.
It is also not Twitter’s right to do so. They sought and received special protections as a common carrier and should act like one or drop the protection.
Loved your open discussion last night. Have been interested all day in your opinion on this topic!
I think this will be their new shtik (republicans, trumpers and the like) They Want To Silence You, Communism, blah blah, which will give new life to them and will incite them even more.
Hawley already tried to hang “cancel culture” on Simon & Schuster for cancelling his book deal. So look for that. Boo hoo.
It’s too little too late. I give them credit for doing it now, but he’s been a threat since day one and Americans have been in this toxic emotionally abusive relationship with him and some of his ardent followers for a long time, especially us black folk - we tried to warn ppl like man others. We are traumatized, and the damage is done. Perhaps social media and other platforms should have cared just as much when Charlottesville happened. I mean just look at today, you see a comparison to the terrorist attacks that we just witnessed in the capital people are literally trying to “stop the steal” of our FAIR election. Fox News went on a whataboutism spree today and started comparing black lives matter protest to this terror attack when not one of us BLM ppl have ever committed a coup, an OBVIOUS distinction - but just like trump I think Fox News thinks it’s important to teach their supporters how to be victims at all times. Social media censorship will help but there is still a large amount of misinformation on so many other platforms including television. Fox News is literally telling their millions of followers that we hate all trump supporters, We are going to take over, etc. Trump literally started his political career with racist Birtherism remarks regarding Obama. His resume is shit and shows very clear history of racism and yet somehow Hillary Clinton was too evil to vote for even after he stated that Mexicans are rapists and grab a woman by the Pussy. I think we are living in a moment where we have to acknowledge this is turning into various cults as we see with Qanon and while the censorship is important, it’s obvious that the damage is already done and we need to start thinking about how do we deprogram people from this extremist ideology that can obviously turn into domestic terrorism.
Setting aside a private business choosing what their users/employees post (not a 1st amendment issue), I think revisiting net-neutrality would be prudent. It is a complex issue that warrants its own discussion; pay to play, accessibility, being just two that come to mind.
Agree. Starting with the quagmire of classing social media companies as common carriers.
I think the suspensions are fair. We sign up to use these social media platforms and play by their rules. Just like Twitter has locked accounts for hours when civilians violate the terms - this is no different, just on a larger scale when it’s a powerful person is using Twitter’s platform to incite violence and spread misinformation.
In all my 65 years, I never thought I would see this type of abuse of power in America. It saddens me to see how low some people will stoop just to prove a point. These megalomaniacs need to be taken down several notches. The whole purpose of social media is to be able to share your thoughts and opinions with others, whether others agree with those thoughts and opinions or not. To silence anyone simply because you don't like them or what they say - and these people have shown their hatred and bias on a daily basis for the last four years - makes you a tyrant with a god complex. I've watched these men go before Congress and lie through their teeth about manipulation of data, as well as targeting certain people because they don't share the same political views or religious beliefs. It is censorship to almost the highest level. Next, they will have people arrested who post anything they disagree with.
The thing is—that is exactly what Trump has been doing in his office. He is using his government as a way to shut down and oppress a democratically elected and legitimate fair election. That had been the entire point of his office—to decide what he wants to be the truth and to punish anyone who disagrees with him or who won’t do it. No other president has fired or censored so many in his circle. It’s literally what he has always done. And he is the government. That is wrong.
A private company censoring a man who encourages mass violence? Not protected.
No - it's not because they don't like him. If that were the case, they'd have cut him off long, long before 2016.
Along with the 'incite violence' thing - pretty sure who the new congressuonal overseers will be (I think it was Yashar who pointed it out).
I listened to his speech, and not once did I hear anything even remotely akin to him "inciting violence." I did hear him call for peace, and also telling them to go home. On the other hand, I have heard the media and Democratic congressmen and women actually telling their constituents to use violence against anyone who supported the President. And that was not from the media, but right out of the speakers own mouth. But you're right about one thing: "It's not because they don't like him", it's because they hate him. Are you aware that a mere eighteen minutes after he was sworn in, they were already working on impeaching him? They have fought him every second of every day of his presidency. He still accomplished so many wonderful things for not just the American people, but also for other countries. I can only imagine what he might have accomplished if he hadn't had to deal with all the false accusations and other bs that was thrown at him.
Really? You don't remember the 'beat the hell out of them' when he was campaigning in 2016? And that's just one example.
And I keep asking for proof of the 'great things' he's done. The proof consists of the following:
* Things others have done that he takes credit for
* Things that don't exist
* Things that really aren't that great
The vast majority fall in the first category.
https://frankreport.com/2020/04/18/one-hundred-twenty-five-amazing-accomplishments-of-president-donald-j-trump/
Ok I got to the third one:
Trump signed a law to make cruelty to animals a federal felony so that animal abusers face tougher consequences.
That was a bill co-sponsored by my Republican congressman (to explain how it got past Mitch) that he merely signed when it got to hos desk.
The Space Force - while cool - 'isn't that great' (how does it benefit us?)
So, I challenge you to go down that list of 'laws he's passed' and pull out the ones he actually presented to Congress and worked to GET passed, that are truly great and benefits us - the common American - and not his friends/donors/people he owes money/favors to
So:
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I would like for you to provide proof of the congressmen and women telling their constituents to use violence please. I don't recall hearing or seeing anything like that, but like Evie pointed out, #45 has, from the beginning of his campaigning, continued to use violent language - "Mexico only sends criminals, drug dealers, rapists" and when talking about removing a protester at one of his rally's he said, "get him the hell out of here" and "“Maybe he should have been roughed up" or look up the January 6 rally where a Muslim women stood up in SILENT protest and was escorted out while people yelled things at her like "do you have a bomb!" because he had suggested that Syrian refugees fleeing war were affiliated with ISIS". Remember when he made fun of a disabled journalist? Or "“If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell out of them. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise." Here, let me give uou this link so you can go read and remind yourself of the hateful rhetoric he campaigned with and continued throughout his time in office. https://www.vox.com/21506029/trump-violence-tweets-racist-hate-speech
Here are a couple for you. There are many more, but I don't have the time or the inclination to look them all up for you.
Maxine Waters: https://youtu.be/I8F8rCJhVM4
Eric Holder: 'When They Go Low, We Kick Them' https://youtu.be/s9U8RFjoP2A
I can't think of anything else except the current wild ass situation. It's taking away my ability to think more than a week into the future. The madness has to stop. How much more can we take?
Long overdue. TMP continues to egg on seditionists, incite violence, and recite lies. If I owned a business and a customer repeatedly came in and trashed the place I would no longer let them in the door. Private business can run their operations they way they see fit, within the boundaries of the law. FB, Twitter, etc are not state-run media (thank God).
The Parler news is good. Hope Apple does same.
He should be shut down because he incites violence. But what is missing from this conversation is the algorithm effect, technology, profit, tech companies and misinformation all are intertwined in a new way.
I'm happy to see they are finally taking action. Trump and others have gotten away for far too long with lies and inciting violence. Lives could have been saved if this had been done, earlier, but I'm happy to see it happen now, even though we're already seeing the "censorship" tweets/posts beginning.
They're always going to whine about something. For the Fuck Your Feelings crowd, they sure are fragile.
Long overdue. I agree with your assessment that leaders of oppressive countries should be restrained as well. Only fear is not knowing what's going on in his head at every moment.
Obviously I'm a proponent of freedom of expression, but the level of discourse of certain groups has not only become toxic, it's now overtly violent. I can understand any concerns to an extent, but this had to happen. This is a consequence of attempting to overthrow democracy.
From the sound of it it seems like they're not going to be able to remove him from office in the next eight days, which means that the intention seems to be dragging this out for as long as possible for as much political capital as possible
Because I tend to be pragmatic or practical-minded, for years I struggled with the concept of "Facebook". When I decided to dip my toe into the pool that is Facebook I realized it was misnamed, because it should be called "Fakebook" to reflect the overall reality.
I gave up on Fakebook Black Friday 2015 when I realized that by using Fakebook I was being used by Fakebook, and I also realized that "Social Media" is equally misnamed owing to the undeniable fact most 'Social Media' is anti-social. Again, from a practical perspective I could not understand the concept because the potential has been squandered.
A demanding standard was applied to President Trump through "Social Media". Respectfully, will the standard be applied equally to his successor?
https://iamcolorado.substack.com/
Twitter is not the problem, people who commit violent acts are. There is a long history of white Americans committing violent acts against
Other Americans. Not just Timothy McVeigh. Do yourselves a service and do your internet search on the heinous acts perpetrated against black
Americans by White Americans!
Start with Lynching. This is what only white Americans are allowed to get away with for majority of the participants. You younger commentators check out your white history of violence.
It is not pretty!
Twitter and @Jack made a lot of money from Trump, who brought with him thousands of news users and increased daily traffic. They allowed him to personally attack anyone, including businesses, media, and journalists, who spoke against him. To close his account after he lost the elections is no different than Lindsey Graham distancing himself from the president after he used his support to get reelected.
He wants to start his own channel but I don’t see how he can pull together if big tech chose to not work with him.. For example, they could refuse to host their Cloud data making it more complicated for him to undertake building the entire solution solo.
I think his days are over and he is going down hard. His influence will lessen although there will always be the hard-core followers who will make him a martyr. I wonder about his kids. How does their future look? Shunned? Or next Florida Governor? Do people start relocating to Florida to be with their kind?
what happens to his enablers?
How do we hold politicians accountable for messaging? Politicians must stop lying and conspiring. How do we dial down propaganda ads and go back to the basics when it comes to politics? I think they should be held accountable if they publish lies online. This must stop!! It was remarkable to see how many of the ppl who they manipulated & they lost their lives fighting for Trump were cognitively slow, recovering addicted, etc. QAnon is praying on a lot of vulnerable ppl with conspiracies.
Long past due. I am so tired of everyone raving about their rights and ignoring accountability.